OFFICIAL ear cropping/tail docking debate thread

Talk about diets, exercise, and disease.

Postby Odnarb » Mon Sep 20, 2004 9:27 pm

mnp13 wrote:Past a few days old, I think docking should be done under anestetic - however I know of a number of vets who do it up to a month old with out. I was honestly unaware that it was not 'standard procedure' to do it this way.



5 days should be the limit, anything after should be anesthetized. 5 days is even pushing it, 3 days is best. Other vets may do it that way, it's not against the law, but I (and the vets I work for) think that is very wrong. I also think that the way most low cost spay/neuter clinics operate is unethical and dangerous, but hey, it's not illegal!

We've never had to "dig out bone." Vertebre spaces should be determined beforehand. Also, pull the skin back when you do it so that there is plenty of skin to put a little suture in. It's quick, and the pups just cry when they are removed from their sibs, then stop when they are returned.
Last edited by Odnarb on Mon Sep 20, 2004 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby AllAmericanPUP » Mon Sep 20, 2004 9:27 pm

Those pups were likely done imporperly or too old.


It was done properly and the pups were only 2 days old :dunno:

If ya like the standing ears, then get a dog with naturally erect ears :tongue:

and what does it mean by "fully drop ears??"
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Postby AllAmericanPUP » Mon Sep 20, 2004 9:50 pm

that's what they tell me, but what exactly does it mean?

does Eli still have drop ears even though he doesn't always carry his ears.
he carries his ears lots of different ways, except totally erect

and why is Eli always picked on? :sad: i see lots of dogs on here with drop ears like his, and dome heads like his, but yet nobody ever comments on them :sad:
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Postby mnp13 » Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:00 pm

AllAmericanPUP wrote:and what does it mean by "fully drop ears??"


I'm pretty sure this is how it goes:

Full drop ears just droop off the head. Basset hounds and Poodles. Elijah is a good example.

Half drop are the ones that have a fold just at the base, so the ear is kinda 'squared off' but doesn't stand up at all. Most labs.

Rose Prick are like Connors, they stand out to the side a bit and you can see some of the inside. (I think that's half prick as well)

full prick are like Rodney, German Shepherds, wolves, Pomeranians.

Ear carrage is based on how the ears fall naturally, outside of emotion. If the dog is sleeping rightside up and their ears fall flat against their head, they are 'full drop'. If the ear sometimes falls at a half fold due to the dog's expression that does not make them 'half fold ears'

Michelle
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Postby AllAmericanPUP » Tue Sep 21, 2004 7:13 am

ok thanx.
I like eli's ears just the way they are :inlove:
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Postby blover27 » Tue Sep 21, 2004 7:20 am

while you guys are talking about this can someone tell me what jacks ears are? i always thought they were full drop but now after reading michelles post it sounds like they are half drop :huh?:

AllAmericanPUP, your new avatar ... :thumbsup:
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Postby AllAmericanPUP » Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:38 pm

thanx :)
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Postby Xypher » Tue Sep 28, 2004 9:47 pm

Hey, I was just looking at Hartagolds site and i noticed Doodle as a puppy had his ears down but a few weeks later got cropped and they stand up straight. I thought they sorta had to stand by them selves to look good when cropped, they do something to get them to stand? Or is it just that little weight off of them that lets them stand?
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Postby AllAmericanPUP » Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:22 pm

most dogs if cropped at a young age(before 16 weeks) then their cropped ears will stand. after 16 weeks it's a lil harder to get them to stand correctly.
Usulaly taping is required to get ears to stand correctly but not always
and sometimes even with taping and cropping at a young enough age, the ears still won't stand.
it just depends on the dog i guess.
I think it's easier to get short crop(like most pits have) to stand, compared to a great dane or boxer crop wich is much longer and requires months and sometimes even up to a year to get the ears to stand.
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Postby JaquelineC » Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:46 pm

Right on Chea!

I'm sorry, but we have too many big f*ckin' fish to fry between BYBs and BSL alone to be focusing on the 'horrors' of ear cropping...

Sheesh!
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Postby megan203 » Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:55 pm

:goodpost:

Honestly, I was pretty undecided about the whole ear cropping/tail docking thing. After reading all the debates about it, I've decided that this is ok for some people:

Image


and this is just abuse:
Image

but that the whole idea of ear cropping in a non issue in the face of all the other things that have to be dealt with first.
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Postby Odnarb » Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:04 pm

megan203 wrote:Honestly, I was pretty undecided about the whole ear cropping/tail docking thing. After reading all the debates about it, I've decided that this is ok for some people:

Snip pic of Grant

and this is just abuse:

Snip pic of Honey



It's tough to convey emotion in an internet post. I guess I'm having trouble trying to figure out if you are being sarcastic or not.

I am the owner of the first dog. His ear crop surgery was performed by a licensed veterinarian. He was induced with valium/ketamine, at that time an endotracheal tube was placed, and he was maintained on isoflurane gas. The vet then shaped his ears in a sterile surgery suite, then carefully sutured them. He was given adequate pain control during recovery.

The second dog was held down and had her ears cut off (probably with scissors on a kitchen table) by somebody who was not a licensed veterinarian. She was not given adequate pain control, she was not done in a sterile environment.

There is more to the opninion of level of cruelty than the beauty of the crop.
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Postby JaquelineC » Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:04 pm

Chop Crop, Chea :(
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Postby JaquelineC » Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:09 pm

Odnarb - I'd be willing to bet that Megan meant that getting a gorgeous crop done by a professional (like you did w/Grant) is ok, but chopping your dog's ears off with scissors (like the other girl), well, isn't... lol
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Postby megan203 » Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:20 pm

JaquelineC wrote:Odnarb - I'd be willing to bet that Megan meant that getting a gorgeous crop done by a professional (like you did w/Grant) is ok, but chopping your dog's ears off with scissors (like the other girl), well, isn't... lol


:oops:
What she said. Forgive me, I can be horribly inarticulate at times. Grant's one of my favorite forum dogs, I love his ears!

I'll just be shutting up now.....
:oops:
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