rescue pit x puppies question

[turrean]

the shelter i volunteer with is pretty good in their policies re pits. they are careful about placement, and they only euthanize if the dog is people aggressive or has a very high dog aggression. The screening is pretty good, and there are staff people who are knowledgeable about pits as well as responsible owners. All puppies of any breed (under 6 months) have to be enrolled in a positive methods obedience class before they are allowed to be adopted. There is some follow up if they do not attend at least the puppy socialization. For the most part they have been successful with good homes.

Recently an abandoned litter of pit (mom was a pit) and husky/malamute mixes came in. they were 2 days old when they arrived. WITHOUT the mom, they were fed from the mom the first two days, and the owner decided having puppies was a pain in the butt, so dumped them. they came to the shelter via a vet. Anyhow, they went to a foster who has 3 of her own dogs and there are 2 temp fosters there. She has bottle fed the pups, and one of her dogs, a spayed female husky/border collie/sighthound mix has also taken on a maternal role and is cleaning the puppies, and being a mom, doing everything except for the feeding.

The pups have had lots of handling, as well as exposure to cats, other dogs and people (they are only 2 weeks old now) so it is in reason, as to not expose them to risks.

Anyhow, there are people saying that all the puppies should have been euthanized as soon as we got them as they will be very dangerous dogs when they grow up, based on the breed mix, and being abandoned so young. Personally i think that they have a mom dog, who is an awesome mom, although she is not feeding them, she is doing everything else. they are getting a lot of human handling and are going to be exposed to a lot through the foster. Obedience classes will be mandatory for adopters and the screening process will be strict as they are for all pups, especially pits.

Am I nuts?? Are these puppies lost causes? I will admit to not knowing too much about huskies or Malamutes, but i know they can be aloof and have high prey drives, but maybe they pups will combine the best of both breeds, rather than the worst??? it is an above average foster home who is doing a lot for them, and will continue to socialize them with other dogs once they are old enough, and socialize with people etc...they won't be adopted before about 9 weeks... any opinions???

thanks
tara

[Steph-n-Wolf]

Wow! It is wonderful how many people have grouped together to save that litter. i am very impressed!

It sounds to me like everything is being done to give those puppies the best of odds that they can be afforded. Far better, in this case, if they has stayed with the mother dog and that owner... his carelessness and utter lack of any trace of empathy does not give me much hope that those puppies would have had near the care that they do in foster care now. And bravo & way cool of that dog to take on the pups as her own!

I in no way promote the breeidng of pits to huskies... or do I really promote breeding at all I don't think that mix is really desirable, given some of the genetic predispostions and such... but they sound far from a lost cause! And obviously others agree since they have made it along this far...

They have the benefit of having litter mates to interact with, and a momma dog to teach them about being a dog. These things will go far for those pups. They are being socialized and shown love. I in no way expect to see vicious monsters just because they were unable to stay with their birth mother. The may or may not have some genetic unsoundness issues, but that is a risk with any dog from questionalbe decent.

Now they have a loving home, good food, medical care, obedience training, and screening before going into homes... more than they would have had with the creep that dumped them.

I would suggest having them spayed and neutered BEFORE going into homes, waiting until 12 weeks at least for placement, and not advertising them as pit/husky mixes but rather as pit mixes and then explain directly to the potential adopter (that does not seem like they are on crack) what the mix is The last thing you want is wackos that want a killer guard dog, a killer fighting dog, a killer ego trip of a dog, or want to start their own breed by mating the adopted pups...

And pictures. Losts of pictures. I bet that they are cute as anything!

[turrean]

Wow! It is wonderful how many people have grouped together to save that litter. i am very impressed!

I would suggest having them spayed and neutered BEFORE going into homes, waiting until 12 weeks at least for placement, and not advertising them as pit/husky mixes but rather as pit mixes and then explain directly to the potential adopter (that does not seem like they are on crack) what the mix is The last thing you want is wackos that want a killer guard dog, a killer fighting dog, a killer ego trip of a dog, or want to start their own breed by mating the adopted pups...

And pictures. Losts of pictures. I bet that they are cute as anything!

Hmmm i don't know how to post pictures, but i will stick some up on my website with a link.. they still look like little rats LOL... the males (4) are black/white and brown/white. the females (3) are light tan with black masks, one of them has no mask. they are cute puppies. my favorite is a little light one, female.. she is so cute..

they will be spay/neutered, they will be available to be adopted, but they don;t let them go home right away. they usually wait until the puppies are 9 weeks or so to advertise them, going home 12 weeks or so. they won't get placed really quick, as more apps will be declined than approved.

I am just kind of floored that people are adament the dogs need to be euthanized... they are babies and despite the genetic drives etc with each dog, they are getting so much handling etc., because the foster knows that it is a tough mix... one person suggested they should be 'drowned', which i think is really a cruel thought....

one of my dogs is a rescued pit x jack russell... which has the potential to be a pretty insane dog.. but he is great, it was hard work, but he is an awesome, gentle natured dog. these pups have a better chance than him, because they are getting a good start,and my dog didn't, he was a year when i rescued him and petrified of people.

tara

[turrean]

http://www.nsdogs.com/pups.htm
this is them at 2 days ... they look like mice LOL...

will add in a few more recent ones, and with their new momma....

tara

[Maryellen]

they do not look like rats!! they are adorable. Kudos to the foster family that is taking care of these babies and to the foster dog momma too!! i dont see any reason why they cant be adopted - as long as they are getting socialization, attention, care from the foster dog, and the family.

[caped dog]

Tara- In general, I would weigh in on the "they should have been euthanized" team. Having said that, this specific situation sounds about as ideal under the circumstances as possible. I wish they weren't pits at all, but rabbit/kangaroo X's... if something goes on later in life we will all be scratching our heads wondering if this insult was the thing that made the difference. Are you/ your shelter willing to do comprehensive follow-up? Is the shelter willing to consider writing in a specific clause to the adoption contract that if the dog becomes freak-o they can reclaim it?

On the list of risk factors the foster home sounds highly impressive and is addressing their complex infant puppy needs (and likely not sleeping at all). Ask foster home if they are *occassionally* knocking puppy off bottle as this replicates the frustration and battle over teets. There are many. many other subtle things that go on during that time which they are going to want to work to replicate. Sucks to say but the problem we nice humans make is giving sweet angelic puppies everything they need and coddle them too much unfortunately can build overly dependent critters.

The biggest piece is their resident female willing to take the job on. If she weren't in the picture it's be a done deal in my mind...so many people say "my dog loves puppies" then stick 'em in the yard and the adult dog wants nothing whatsoever to do with it. Many dogs don't love puppies. Since they're not hers, hold on tight if she starts blowing them off in three weeks (even bio moms do this) and be part of a comprehensive team of people willing to continuously re-evaluate the approprioateness of this rescue. Also know that mom may be "too nice" and not throwing in that growl or air-snap correction when she ought to.

This is a HUGE project (it'lll make bottle feeding look like a walk in the park) and has a strong potential to go sideways. Would the foster home survive if a pup or three showed serious instability and was recommended PTS? That's the problem with these projects, our loving hearts get involved and rationality goes out the window. Call it self-serving, I would have recommended PTS to save myself the heartache (not to mention lacking the resources) and not having to deal with a dug-in foster home. If a box of 2-weekers showed up on my doorstep w/o a mom I'd PTS. I don't start bending the rules till 5 weeks and if they show up alone I'll shelter search them out some litter mates and even a mom.

Just a ? what do you think of the idea: In a situation like this where the owner ID's themself taking momma dog in on foster contract and returning her to owner in 8+ weeks spayed?

http://www.ddfl.org/behavior/pupdev.htm
http://www.beachescanineacademy.com/cri ... riods.html
http://my.execpc.com/~crzy1ess/49daymyth.htm
http://www.doberman.org/articles/puppy.htm
http://www.dogsites.com.au/internet_lib ... tages.html

HANG ON. I think its gonna be a helluva ride.

EDITED TO ADD:
In fact, any chance you could catch up with the real mommy? Her behavior may shed light on this very comlex project. Temperament may well be the nature part whereas behavior is where temeprament and environment (nurture) intersect. I may be off on that, but I think I read it explained that way. Really, if momma is a nasty-saur or if poppa is a nasty-saur that would change my whole outlook. My heart really goes out to the bio mom- she had the puppies, cleaned them and counted them, they were imprinted with her saliva and her scent- and now everyone loses. This is marginally related- I'd rather do a late -term spay/abortion than let mama have the pups only to euthanize them anyway- tho I reallize that is not relevant in this case.